It is the end of an era for most of the Oilers fans (well those my age). See I grew up watching the Boys on the Bus, but I was not quite 9 years old when the Moose raised the cup for the final time. My formative years were spent watching the Oilers of the 90’s: so me Doug Weight was the star player that I have the most memories about. Man was he a beauty.
So what am I going to be writing about today is why Doug Weight’s 39 should hang in the rafters of Rexall Place. The problem is that the Oilers have to wait till the HHOF recognizes him, before he joins them in the rafters. If that ever happens (and as a betting man, I would not take that bet right now).
I went to the HHOF this spring with my roommate Chris and a fellow named Sachia. Sachia once was the founder of this blog (so he should apologize to all of you right now), and a dear friend of mine. He was quite up set that I had never visited it in the three years I have lived in southern Ontario. So me made me go.
During that trip, Chris and I got a little upset about the HHOF. It started with the sexist jerseys in the women’s hockey section: there was a 1998 “Japan Ladies” jersey hanging there, but no Wickenheiser jersey. No Hayley-Fuckin’-Wickenheiser! I guess we could have taken this snub with a grain of salt since she is not retire yet, but there was other international jerseys of current players (Chara’s Slovak jersey springs to mind).
Next in the Great Hall (or what ever they call it) we noticed that Pat LaFontaine was inducted before Valeri Kharlamov. This is when we really got upset. So we end up talking to a nice Russian couple and a lovely Finnish gentleman—but mainly the Fin—about the clear racist tendencies of the folks that put people in the Hall (I know that some folks would argue that this is national chauvinism, instead of racism, but we are firm believers that there is a strong connection between the two). It was pretty funny as the HHOF staff started looking at us with a confused expression (I guess most people don’t call their employer racist very often while in the presence of the Stanley Cup).
So why the tangent? Well, because I do not see a reason why Doug Weight should not be in the HHOF! I am going to look at three players—who I believe should barely, or not at all, be in the HHOF—and compare them to Mr. 39.
Dino Ciccarelli (2010)
GP: 1232, Goals: 608, Assists: 592, Points: 1200 (0.974 Pts/Game)
GP: 141, Goals: 73, Assists: 45, Points: 118 (0.837 Pts/Game)
Zero Stanley Cups, Jersey retired in London (Knights) only
Cam Neely (2005)
GP: 726, Goals: 395, Assist: 299, Points: 694 (0.956 Pts/ Game)
GP: 93, Goals: 57, Assists: 32, Points: 89 (0.957 Pts/Game)
Zero Stanley Cups, Jersey retired by Boston
Pat LaFontaine (2003)
GP: 865, Goals: 468, Assist: 545, Points 1013 (1.171 Pts/Game)
GP: 69, Goals: 26, Assist: 36, Points 62 (0.899 Pts/Game)
Zero Stanley cups, jersey retired by Buffalo
Doug Weight
GP: 1238, Goals: 278, Assists: 755, Points 1033 (0.834 Pts/Game)
GP: 97, Goals: 23, Assists: 49, Points 72 (0.742 Pts/Game)
One Stanley Cup
OK, so Weight’s numbers are a little lower then these three players. The fact that Dough Weight did not play in the high flying days of the 80’s and did play in the dark days of the trap has to be taken into account when looking at these numbers. So Doug’s numbers are lower, but it is a different era, but he still did get over 1000 pts. Only 79 players have ever done that, and only 28% of those with 1000 are not in the HHOF (as I list the players we will see that some of them will get in eventually so that number really should be lower). Dave Taylor, Bobby Smith, Bernie Nicholls, Brain Propp, Steve Larmer, Doug Gilmor, Dave Anderychuk, Adam Oates, Phil Housley, Dale Hunter, Brain Bellows, Pierre Turgeon, Pat Verbeek, Vincent Damphousse, Joe Niewendyk, Alexander Mogilny, are eligible and not the HHOF. But who from that list actually has a Stanley Cup? Larmer, Bellows, Niewendyk, Gilmor, & Mogilny: That is it. Also, Jaromir Jagr, Mark Recchi, Mike Modano, Sergei Fedorov, Teemu Selanne, Rod Brind’Amour, Keith Tknachuk, Nicklas Lindstom, Alexei Kovalev, Jerome Iginla, and Joe Thornton are either still active or not eligible yet (and a bunch of them will get in one day). So with points alone, I guess you could make a case that Doug Weight deserves to be in the HHOF, but also you could make a point that he does not. Lets move on
Also we have to take in to consideration the fact Doug Weight won the Stanley Cup. I am of the opinion that if you don’t win the Stanley Cup, you should not be considered eligible for the HHOF. That is right even in the 30 team NHL: No Championship = No Hall of Fame status. I’d make exceptions for older Russian players that won many international titles but were not allowed to play in the NHL and women who have won major (and a lot of) international events. Sorry I know that is biased but I do not care. I know folks are going to say that he was a rental player and got hurt during the playoff, but he still got the right number of games to get his name on the cup and that is an accomplishment that should not be taken away from. Plus he also won a silver medal at the 2002 Olympic Games & won the World Cup of Hockey in 1996. Those are large team accomplishments as well. OK so Weight does consider HHOF acclaim in this category.
So I do not know if Doug Weight will ever get in the Hall of Fame, but I think he deserves it. Also I want him in so the Oilers can do the right thing and retire his number 39.
4 comments:
I guess one way to determine a player's value would be to compare with his or her contemporaries. During Weight's NHL career (1991-92 to 2010-11), he gathered the 13th most points of any NHL player.
Neely (to my complete surprise) scored only the 42nd most points during his short tenure from 1983-84 to 1995-96, due to chronic injuries.
LaFontaine gathered the 16th most points during his NHL tenure.
Ciccarelli gathered the 15th most points during his career.
(As a complete aside... holy f***, Gretzky! Don't you have any pity for your opponents?!?!?!)
So to my complete surprise, it appears that era effects might be sufficient to explain away Weight's lower numbers as compared to your examples. Consider my mind blown. Good catch!
Still, look at scoring between the two lockouts: the dreaded dead-puck era. How many Hall of Famers are in this list? Barely anyone.
How about an equivalent nine-year span preceding the 1994-95 lockout? A whole lot more.
So yes, Weight should be considered due to dead-puck-era effects, but no, it seems unlikely that he'll make it in.
I should add that it's definitely possible for more players to be added in the future, so in retrospect, my "how many Hall of Famers" from the high scorers of the dead puck era is definitely premature, silly, and stupid all at once.
Ah, late nights and fatigue...
Look I love Doug Weight. He was often nights the only reason to watch some bad teams. And I fully agree that the Oilers should retire his number. But there is no way he should be in the hall of fame. Nor should, Dino, but I already lost that arguement.
The hall should be for the elite players in the league. If they elect 5 guys a year then the yardstick i like to check is this: was he ever one of the 10 best players in any season. Because so many of hte best players are in that list again and again, it's just a guidepost.
But Doug Weight was never in that conversation. He had 1 100 point season and he was -19 that year. I really do love the guy, he was skilled and he was heart and soul, but he does not belong in the hall.
Also, I like a lot of the things you wrote about the hall, but the cup prerequisite is goofy. So if Ray Bourque hadn't gone to Colorado he doesn't belong in the hall? C'mon cups help, but they aren't the definition of a great player, just a great team.
I think you pretty much nailed this one...he needs his 39 in the rafters, along with the eventual 94.
Based on his point totals, particularly the era and the impact he had on USA hockey, he deserves at least a nomination to the HHOF.
He was the last really great Center the Oilers had, and for my money, the last really great captain (no disrespect for Gator; I loved him, he was a real warrior, but he never did what Weight could do both on and off the ice.)
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